Inside the Diocese: Approvals, Guardrails, and how to Partner Well

This month, Twelve Wicker Baskets sits down with David Kimbell, Chief Financial Officer of the Diocese of Pensacola-Tallahassee, for an inside look at how diocesan leadership approaches growth, governance and stewardship. Serving a rapidly expanding mission diocese in Northwest Florida, Kimbell shares how strong financial systems, transparency and thoughtful guardrails actually fuel, rather than restrict, evangelization. We explore the relationship between finance and development, how parishes can partner well with the diocese, and why healthy processes are essential for sustainable growth.

The conversation goes beyond budgets and building projects to examine the deeper theological vision behind Catholic stewardship. Drawing on his work with the University of Notre Dame Eucharistic Culture Project, Kimbell reflects on church property as “built theology,” the importance of mission-driven storytelling in fundraising and the irreplaceable role of authentic pastoral leadership. From practical approval processes to generational vision, this episode offers diocesan and parish leaders a compelling framework for aligning financial discipline with the Church’s ultimate mission: bringing people into communion with Christ.

Guest: David Kimbell

Title: Chief Financial Officer, Diocese of Pensacola-Tallahassee

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Transcript

Christopher Beaudet

I'm Christopher Beaudet with the Steier Group. In the Gospel, Jesus fed 5,000 with only five loaves and two fish. After the crowd was satisfied, there were 12 wicker baskets left over. It seems that whenever you and I set to work and do our part, God provides the abundance. In each episode of this podcast, I'll explore with pastoral leaders and development professionals from across the United States and Canada all the many ways God meets the spiritual and temporal needs of our parish communities, our Catholic schools and the diocesan church and not only meets those needs, but provides in abundance. You're listening to Twelve Wicker Baskets. Thank you so much for joining us here on Twelve Wicker Baskets. My guest today is David Kimbell, Chief Financial Officer for the Diocese of Tallahassee Pensacola, a high-growth mission diocese in the heart of the Bible Belt. Since assuming the role in August 2024, Dave has overseen the financial strategy and operational infrastructure of a diocese spanning 18 counties, serving more than 70,000 Catholics across 87 sites, with over $125 million in annual revenues and approximately $550 million in physical assets. As CFO, Dave manages diocesan financial processes, policies, and personnel across accounting, compliance, insurance, and risk management, while supporting development and buildings and properties. He directly supervises a team of 15 and helps steward more than 1,400 diocesan employees. In just the past 18 months, he has assisted in launching multiple new entities, including a new parish, preschool, parochial school, and retreat center, align rapid growth with strong financial governance. One of his early initiatives was the creation of a new trust structure for the Diocesan Savings and Loan Fund, ensuring stronger financial protections and greater transparency in interest rates for parish and school savings accounts. His work reflects a consistent theme in his leadership, building systems that foster both growth and trust. Dave is currently a fellow in the University of Notre Dame's Eucharistic Culture Project, a two-year initiative through the McGrath and Fitzgerald Institutes. The project studies church property nationwide with the goal of aligning resources to mission, particularly by developing sustainable financial solutions for underutilized church assets. His specific focus is creating scalable processes for evaluating and prioritizing diocesan projects, work that bridges theology, stewardship, and sound financial practice. Before becoming CFO, Dave spent more than 15 years serving Catholic parishes and schools in leadership roles across finance, operations, advancement, and education. As business manager of the Cathedral of the Sacred Heart in Pensacola, he directed multi-million dollar capital campaigns and major construction projects, including a $6 million cathedral renovation completed on time and on budget during the COVID pandemic and a hurricane recovery effort exceeding 3 million in repairs. Under his leadership, parish offertory has grown by more than 12% annually over several consecutive years. Dave holds an MBA from Franciscan University of Steubenville and a Master of Education from the University of Notre Dame, where he served in the ACE Teaching Fellows Program. His academic and professional background reflects a rare blend of financial expertise, educational leadership, and missionary zeal. At heart, Dave sees financial stewardship not merely as accounting, but as evangelization, ensuring that the church's resources are productive and transparent and boldly aligned with her mission to to save souls. Dave and his wife reside in Pensacola and will be welcoming their seventh child in March. Dave, thank you so much for taking some time to be my guest today on Twelve Wicker Baskets. I'm very much looking forward to our conversation. Thanks for the gift of your time.

Dave Kimbell

Absolutely, Christopher. Thank you so much and grateful to be here and grateful for the conversation.

Christopher Beaudet

You are the Chief Financial Officer for the Diocese of Tallahassee Pensacola, which is Northwest Florida, for those who don't know their geography. And you've been there for about a year and a half. Is that correct? Give or take.

Dave Kimbell

That's correct. That's correct. Yes, the 18 counties that comprise the whole panhandle of Florida.

Christopher Beaudet

Okay, gotcha. And so that would technically be called the Bible Belt, would it not?

Dave Kimbell

It is the Bible Belt. It is the Deep South. Some people call it the Redneck Riviera. Okay.

Christopher Beaudet

Is there any truth to that or?

Dave Kimbell

Absolutely. It's a diverse, interesting amalgamation of a lot of different cultures. And we are actually closer to New Orleans than we are to any other city in the South, including any other city in Florida. So rich history of French settlements and Spanish settlements and British settlements. So a big military presence here, beautiful white sand beaches. It's just a great place.

Christopher Beaudet

I was going to ask you, is the Catholic population there, does it, is it, is it's kind of epicenter leaning towards the French aspect of moving E from New Orleans or is it a lot of northerners have just moved down there with beach homes? What's the?

Dave Kimbell

It's interesting. Catholics only comprise about 5% of the population here in Northwest Florida. And most of them are along the coast in really 4 sort of metro areas, Pensacola, the Destin Fort Walton Beach area, Panama City, and Tallahassee. And each of those Catholic communities probably traces its history to a different group. Here in Pensacola, it's Spanish.

Christopher Beaudet

Okay, interesting. I'm excited to talk to you about, our theme, kind of the inside perspective from the diocese, a diocesan point of view on approvals, guardrails, things to avoid, et cetera, and how to partner well with parishes and for parishes to partner well with the diocese in all of the things pertaining to stewardship, financial, you know, good housekeeping, I know book five of the Code of Canon. I've got a canon law background. It's all about.

Dave Kimbell

That's right. I was going to ask you about that.

Christopher Beaudet

Yeah, the good householder is the expression used there about just maintaining good order financially and good care of resources. But in the church, we've seen a lot of, and it varies depending on where in the country you are, you know, but in the Northeast, for example, or the Midwest, we've seen a lot of church properties. needing to be closed or repurposed or thought of how to use it creatively in different ways, oftentimes with a lot of sorrow. And some of them are just architectural gems too. Other places, gosh, we're crammed, we're gonna need to build a bigger parish or build more parishes, et cetera. What's the landscape currently in your diocese?

Dave Kimbell

We are seeing a lot of growth. Last year, our both offertory and parishioner data grew by more than 12% on average across the diocese. Oh, wow.

Christopher Beaudet

That is aggressive.

Dave Kimbell

It is aggressive. Our physical properties, interest in value, grew by almost 8%. We're seeing about 12. active campaigns across our diocese right now. Most of them are to expand either the main sanctuary or to build a new school, to renovate an existing school. We are seeing just incredible demand for our Catholic schools. Every single one of them has a wait list and a few of them are actively expanding. So definitely unique. I think it's a variety of reasons, right? A little bit of it is just that Florida itself is growing. It's still a destination for a lot of people around the country to move to. And we are a small mission diocese too. So one of the rules of small numbers is that your percentages look great when you have growth.

Christopher Beaudet

Right. That's right, exactly. If you have one person, now there are two, it's a big percentage leap.

Dave Kimbell

Exactly, yes.

Christopher Beaudet

So your role then in finance is distinct from obviously a stewardship and development office, and the diocese has such an office, I understand.

Dave Kimbell

That's right, yes.

Christopher Beaudet

And what's the structural relationship in your diocese between the finance office and the stewardship and development office? Because I know that relationship has a variety of models in dioceses across the country and in Canada. What's the situation in your diocese?

Dave Kimbell

That's right. There's no real set structure the dioceses have to adhere to in terms of who, the foundation or development office has to report to. Here in Pensacola, Tallahassee, our development office is separate from finance and does not report to finance. It actually reports to the chancellor's office or the chief operating officer.

Christopher Beaudet

So there's a, would you also report to the COO?

Dave Kimbell

I do. So I do also report to the COO. Some dioceses are a little bit different where the CFO might report directly to the bishop, but in ours, we keep those departments separate. It does allow for development to not be necessarily bound to the strict sort of maybe mindset of a finance office. It allows the development office to go out a little bit more from the pastoral center and serve the parishes. So from my standpoint as the CFO, I view the work of the development office as one of our revenue inputs to the overall diocesan budget.

Christopher Beaudet

I think sometimes people like yourself who are CFOs, you have I mean this in the most, with the greatest esteem of bean counter. Numbers are very, they, they don't, there's not a lot of wiggle room with numbers. And you would not, they don't lie. And you would not, you would be derelict in your responsibility if you fudged, if you were not transparent, if you, you know, and so that's the nature of your job and your work and your, your role is to be precise and to be definitive, et cetera. And then I I think sometimes though CFOs or financially minded people can misperceive development or reduce it to only a means of income, of revenue, rather than all about the business of building relationships, telling the impact story of mission. And these things are not unrelated at all. And so the challenge comes when that distinction or that divide between the two is can be introduced. Does that make sense?

Dave Kimbell

It can, certainly. And I think it's healthy to say that the development office, even though providing an important input on the revenue side, is not a function of the finance department. Development, as you said, is really all about growing the mission and forming relationships and building disciples and communicating that vision that people want to be a part of. I would say that these two departments, especially if I think through Two of my larger reports would be the accounting department and the risk management department. If you have a healthy accounting process at your parish and a healthy risk management process and understanding at your parish, chances are you're probably going to have a healthy development mindset as well, so long as each of those silos are not silos. We see each other as working together to support this mission and stewarding the resources of a parish and school and many cases for the greater good.

Christopher Beaudet

So do you see mission as the glue, as the bridge, the link between all these various areas of emphasis, maybe would be the best way to put it.

Dave Kimbell

I think it has to be, but I also think that relationships are a key part of that. I think where parishes can sometimes get into a little bit of trouble is when they have not necessarily distributed their efforts across multiple people. If it's all about the pastor or if it's all about a business manager or a school principal, and it isn't about the clearly communicated vision that goes beyond that one person and out into those broader circles, bringing more people in and empowering people to make decisions that are for the good of the community and the good of the parish. then that's maybe where people get into a little bit of trouble, especially if there's a transition. A whole community can kind of fall apart.

Christopher Beaudet

Exactly.

Dave Kimbell

It was built upon only one or two people.

Christopher Beaudet

Yeah, you're right. And there's a danger too, I think, with relying upon one or two significant donors to kind of keep things going. Sometimes we'll hear a pastor or somebody say, wow, well, too bad we need a campaign, but maybe these two people can cover everything. And that's such a narrow, limited understanding of a campaign is just a way to get money rather than building stewardship, ownership of the goals of the community, et cetera. I was curious about your involvement with the Eucharistic Culture Project, a two-year fellowship at Notre Dame between the McGrath and Fitzgerald Institutes aimed at examining church property. Again, we're just talking about this. You're growing. and it examines church property around the country and seeks to align resources to mission. What have you been learning in your involvement there that has informed your perspective on what we're talking about for your diocese?

Dave Kimbell

Well, it's fascinating to hear from people all around the country in different circumstances. As you pointed out, especially up in the Northeast, there are parishes closing and trying to discern and make decisions about these often beautiful churches, historic churches that maybe the entire parish community has essentially dissolved and moved out into the suburbs. And what do we do with these urban spaces? How can we repurpose them so that they are still sacred and preserved? Or can we regrow parish communities in these places too? So we have a little bit different, I guess you could say, problem in Pensacola. A happy problem. Right, We have some historic properties, but the majority of our properties are newer and maybe formed more in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, rather than the 1860s, 70s, and 80s.

Christopher Beaudet

Or earlier for the case of St. Augustine. Yeah.

Dave Kimbell

That's right. And so really, this is an incredible group of people who have come together to try to solve these problems together. And I think that's where Notre Dame has really said that this is what we're all about, that we're a national, international research university. We can do this. We can convene this group of people in service of the church. And so looking at the history of the ways in which our parishes have developed over time, some of the mistakes that were made, especially rapid expansion into the suburbs and things like that. We can look at those lessons. And as I look at our properties in Pensacola, Tallahassee, how am I setting the stage for these to be successful for the next 50, 100, 200 years by the decisions that we make now? Because parish communities, they're not formed overnight and they are often generational. And these are places where not just interactions on Sundays, and these are places where people will spend their entire lives, baptisms, confirmations, weddings, funerals, or sometimes two, three, four generations of a family, and we cannot make these decisions lightly. And so I think that those lessons and some of those case studies that we're doing with the Fitzgerald Institute and this incredible cohort of people, I could then take back to my finance office and I say, how are we helping pastors and the lay ministers at our parishes understand the gravity of these decisions that they are making about even where to put a classroom or where to put the baptismal font in a church when they're renovating and make sure that it's not just a financial consideration, that they're thinking long-term about the communities that will be living there and worshiping there and praying there for many generations in some cases. And how are they looking at their properties in ways that can be growth oriented and not just insular, which I think is sometimes a problem among especially risk averse communities.

Christopher Beaudet

Yeah, that's very true. I'm just struck with the thought that everything you're describing right now is basically stewardship. Stewards think of what they have in their hand at the moment as that it has been held and cared for by many before me, and it will be held and cared for by many after me. And so I have to have the right relationship and thinking and understanding about what is now, quote, mine, right? I'm a steward, I'm not its possessor. And so pastors of parishes or even parishioners themselves and the diocese and all of us really as disciples of the Lord, everything we've received is gift. And so we have to really handle it that way and treat it that way to be handed on as gift. So the project that you're focusing on, as I understand it, scalable processes for evaluating diocesan projects. And you were describing this to me earlier as something that bridges theology, stewardship, and sound financial practices. How do you bridge all of these various interests? Because they can have their own foci, and I'm wondering if sometimes people think, well, theology's got nothing to do with finance. Finance's got nothing to do with stewardship. What are your thoughts about that?

Dave Kimbell

We are a sacramental people, and being a sacramental people means that we worship and grow and live and enter into relationship with one another in places. And so we can never really, as Catholics, we can never really separate the physical from the theological, from the financial. And when we're looking at church property in particular, we cannot make decisions about these things just by looking at one of those areas. The answer, what should we do here, or where should we build this, or what should we do with this struggling community? We have to be able to discuss it in the full breadth of the human person, human dignity, human communities, and also these spiritual and theological realities. And as I grapple with these decisions, and my team grapples with these decisions, and individual pastors and the bishop grapple with even just the decisions that we have in a small diocese. And of course, these are all problems that every community will have to face and address. Sometimes good when they're growth-minded and other times contraction. There really are no rubrics. for helping to make those decisions. How do we weight certain aspects of these decisions? How do we communicate each of those? stakeholder groups and realities, financial realities, theological realities, there really isn't a standardized way to approach these problems as far as I could tell. And so one of the things I'm working on in this cohort is to develop standardized vocabulary for being able to have these conversations at scale and rubrics for a community to enter into these discussions, assigning some degree of objective value that can then maybe be a help to make a decision or at least help drive the conversation.

Christopher Beaudet

I've never heard anybody describe it the way you did about the sacramental character of our communion. And that's a consequence of the incarnation. And the Catholic faith is a very incarnate religion. And our churches are not just functional spaces for the spiritual church to gather. They are themselves built theology. They are the houses of the house of God and the gate of heaven, as we say. And so these places themselves are sacred. I'm again, thinking of canon law and sacred places and all the norms around that. I love that. Yeah, I can see the benefit of somebody of a CFO who has the theological mind that you do. That's a great. That is a great blessing to your diocese. I appreciate that insight. When it comes to parishes that want, or schools in your diocese that want to basically address these financial concerns in a theological and stewardship way, what are some of the guardrails, things, pitfalls that you think they should avoid? Some of these maybe mistakes in the past that you mentioned that you've been examining at the Eucharistic Culture Project. Yeah, what are some of the guardrails that they ought to avoid?

Dave Kimbell

Well, I think first of all, with financial guardrails, but often that's much more. local and maybe isn't exactly the big picture that you're asking about. I think about, financial processes and checks and balances and sustainability and how is a pastor communicating the financial realities of his parish to his people.

Christopher Beaudet

Transparency.

Dave Kimbell

Transparency builds trust, right? Transparency builds trust. But I think that where, as In this Eucharistic culture project where we've looked at some communities who have maybe grown too quickly or built out in the wrong ways, it's often because there was not an intentional effort to engage the place. And by the place, we don't just mean the campus of the church, we mean the community, the neighborhood, the municipal entity where that community is is placed and interacts with. who are the neighbors? What are the neighborhoods being built around that church? How can a parish engage with those? Are there ways in which streets can be not just pass-throughs, not just arteries that cut through campuses or nearby or access points, but can actually be engaged as civic areas. The church can be an active part of fostering civic life and commercial life. Maybe there's affordable housing initiatives that can have a first floor coffee shop that is on the church property. And then there's engagement with all sorts of walks of life and people who are not necessarily parishioners but are living on the church property and how are they being engaged. You can really think through all of the consequences of how deeply ingrained a parish community should be and can be when you start looking at all of these case studies and Strong Towns is one of the organizations that we've looked at a lot. Chuck Morrone is the head of Strong Towns. He's actually a Catholic. And some of his work in new urbanism is because of his faith. Interesting. And seeing how Catholic churches, I mean, think about the Middle Ages, right?

Christopher Beaudet

Yep.

Dave Kimbell

These medieval towns, the cathedral was not just geographically the center, but it was economically the center of the town. It was all of the residential areas were built around it. often was the town's largest employer, certainly during times of construction. And so we can't neglect to think through all of those people and entities as potential stakeholders in a parish's vision.

Christopher Beaudet

I love that. That's a far more comprehensive and expansive understanding of parish and a parish's role than maybe we often, that we often think of. So if a parish has projects and they submit them to the diocese, does that come to your office? Does it come to development? What's your process for green lighting projects in the diocese? Your approvals.

Dave Kimbell

One of the, right, exactly, right. Or telling a parish community that maybe they're not quite ready. Sometimes that's a difficult conversation. We start with three people. We start with finance, real estate and properties, and development. So the development office really looks at is the parish ready to move forward with a capital campaign if that's a necessary part of this project. My office, we look at, are they financially healthy already? Are they following the rules? Are they building a savings account? Are there any sort of risk management issues that need to be resolved before they can move forward? So we try to check those boxes. And oftentimes I'm working with a pastor to create a pro forma, to look at how much maybe they can afford. so development will look at how much can you fundraise, and then I look at how much can you afford to take on as, if we're going to use debt as a structure. My office also manages the internal banking, the deposit and loan fund, which is like our parish and school bank. And then the real estate and property side looks at the feasibility of the project itself. Are they working with The local municipalities, are they going to get proper surveys? Do we know the architect? Have we worked with the architect before? Have they identified a contractor? So it's a lot of those, you know, behind the scenes things that will help a project be successful. Some of our parishes see that as, you know, bureaucratic red tape. We see it as necessary things that every project really needs to make sure it has in order to be successful. And that's what we want. We don't want to say no. We want to see our parishes grow. We want to see people grow the church and expand their communities. But we have to make sure that the processes are in place for them to do so successfully. There's nothing worse for a pastor and there's nothing worse for a parish community to embark on a project that does not succeed.

Christopher Beaudet

It could be very deflating. Yes. Yeah. It not only has ill consequences for the project they're trying to achieve, but can really deflate a community for potential, you know, aggressive growth or dreaming big subsequent to that. We see that in our work too. you mentioned success or threats to success for parishes. What I'd like to do is just take a brief break right now, but when we come back, I just want to explore with you, know, what does a successful parish, when a parish is doing it well, what are they doing, you know, a year out or even longer, kind of remote preparation? You know, by the time they're sending in materials to you, they're obviously, they've made some progress, might have some contractor numbers, might have some drawings, begun some communication, but again, just some of that remote preparation that they can do and what those successful parishes look like. So don't go anywhere. I am talking with Dave Kimbell, who's the CFO for the Diocese of Tallahassee, Pensacola. Talk about inside the diocese, approvals, guardrails and how to partner well. We will be right back.

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Christopher Beaudet

Thanks for staying with us. I am speaking with Dave Kimbell, who is CFO in the Diocese of Tallahassee, Pensacola. Before the break, Dave, we were talking about parishes and their success stories and threats to avoid, to keep them from being successful. Those parishes that you can, you don't have to name them, but they probably come to your mind of just doing really well and thriving in the diocese right now. What's one or two or three, whatever habits that they've got that you think other parishes in your diocese haven't developed and should? And maybe by that extension, really any Catholic parish in other dioceses.

Dave Kimbell

Thank you, Christopher. Yeah, great question. And there are certainly parishes that are very successful and they're not always successful in the same ways, but I think it's fair to say that there are some commonalities. And the first one would be vision and mission. Is there a clearly communicated mission, history, vision, all of that of the parish? Is there an identity of that parish? And it might be the same identity as another parish. That's fine. We're Catholic, right? But we're not, we're not so different.

Christopher Beaudet

Sure, this is universal.

Dave Kimbell

But it, but it should be clearly communicated and clearly communicated not just by the pastor, not just by a deacon or even the parish council president, right? It's, is there a hospitality ministry that greets you at the door when you go to mass there that is in line with the mission and vision that the pastor has communicated for his whole, for his whole parish? Is the liturgy an outgrowth of that parish's vision and mission? Is it a, is it a, a good liturgy that it inspires and people want to be a part of it and people want to participate. Are there Bible studies going on? Or is there an active parish council where people have a sense of ownership over their community? It's not just a drive-by parish. So usually the passion and excitement that people have for participating in a parish is not by accident. It's a result of a clearly communicated vision and mission. I would say another big thing, and I'll just identify three, right? But another big one is data and an appreciation of good spreadsheets and data and a data management system. Is there a person on staff or a volunteer who kind of owns it and says that this is theirs and they want to make sure that it's good and accurate? So a sense of ownership over your parish data, but also Is that data being used as part of healthy processes? Do you have a way to collect parishioner birthdays? Does the pastor make calls to people on their birthdays? Or is there, you know, letters sent out regularly telling people, maybe it's a postcard, here's our Christmas mass schedule, here's our Easter mass schedule. Hey, use this postcard that's coming to you because you're one of our parishioners and give it to a neighbor, give it to a friend. So using the data of just parishioner addresses and phone numbers to readily engage people. And evangelize. And evangelize. That's right. The parishioner database should not just be used to collect donation. info and then give a tax letter at the end of the year. that's maybe the bare minimum function, but we can be using our data much more effectively. And some data systems are better than others. Nobody's ever going to be perfectly happy with any data system that they have. I ran an entire capital campaign just out of Microsoft Excel. And so you use what you have as long as you're committing to using it. And then I would say, Another aspect of thriving parishes is that evangelization focus. Are the people in that parish trying to bring the mission outward and people inward? Are we investing in strong youth ministry programs? Are we engaging families in their primary vocation as catechists of their children. Do we have these conversations going on? Are we communicating that this is important? Sometimes parishes will have a different sort of evangelical focus or work of mercy. You know, if a parish is near a prison, do they have a strong prison ministry? If a parish is on a university campus, do they have a strong campus ministry? Parishes can't be all things to all people. You know, you have to respond to the and figure out exactly kind of what is your niche. even small parishes can do that very effectively if they really focus on it and make it a priority. Maybe the parish that's two miles away has a great youth ministry. We don't necessarily need to create a second youth ministry here. Maybe what we can focus on is ministry to the, you know, some of the older folks that are in a nursing home. two blocks away or something like that, and that's our focus, that's our niche. Being passionate about one thing and doing it really well is often a great impetus for growth in other areas.

Christopher Beaudet

Is there a lot of sharing of resources in your diocese among parishes, like for example, you know, St. Monica's will pay a certain percentage of a youth minister's salary and St. Leo the Great Parish will pay another and they kind of share that person? Is that, do you see that happening in your diocese?

Dave Kimbell

It happens a little bit, but I think it's human nature to be a little bit territorial and we're not great at it as human beings. So, nobody's ever going to do it perfectly.

Christopher Beaudet

Sure.

Dave Kimbell

I think that the culture among our parishes and schools over the last five to 10 years has drastically improved such that it is actually possible to have those relationships and conversations. For instance, my parish partners with another parish across town for all of the, summer camps and things. So, we don't send our bus and they send their bus. We just do it together. And we don't see that as competition. But that's rare.

Christopher Beaudet

Yeah. Especially if parishes have, like you were describing earlier, their own history or You see that in cities, for example, the Irish parish and the German parish. Well, they're both Catholic, but yeah, but we're Irish. we're not German and we have our own traditions and things like that. The other factor here is the pastor and his own gifts, skill sets, and shortcomings, which apply to all of us. And some are better at communicating than others. Some are more naturally educators maybe than others. Can you speak to a pastor's authentic buy-in to the parish's mission and vision, as to maybe a desire on his part to impose or direct a community towards a vision or mission he's got? because we all know that can happen. And there is a certain propriety to a shepherd seeking to guide sheep and the pastoral role and ministry of a parish, of a pastor in a parish. But in our work with capital campaigns, one of the things we say all the time is that, we can bring our best counsel, we can bring our resources, et cetera, but what we cannot supply, what we cannot backfill is an absence of passion, enthusiasm, energy on the part of leadership. If that's lacking, it's very difficult to get anyone else to have a heart for the mission and the story you're telling and then depart with your money to support it. Sure. Discuss, if you would, you know, how a pastor can uniquely from his role help a parish advance these things, good vision, mission, data, evangelization, and do that remote preparation for maybe a campaign or other fundraising projects.

Dave Kimbell

There's so much that a pastor has to do, right? And they don't teach business classes in seminary. And running, in some cases, multimillion dollar corporations is really what parishes can sometimes be. is too much for one person to do. But they have that canonical requirement and responsibility to be the shepherds of their community, and that's an incredible weight. Where I have seen some of the most successful pastors, it's not because they were the most passionate, and it's not because they were the best communicators, it's not because they were the best managers, it's because they just authentically loved their people that they were told to be stewards of, right, and jeopards of, and humbly found ways to engage them and share the vision with them and listened and responded. Something, you know, that every Catholic has, I think, written in their heart is that they want to love their pastor, they want to listen to their pastor, they want to do what their pastor asks them to do. And pastors have an incredible power and ability, and I think sometimes they don't make use of that. They don't ask, they don't invite, they don't share. Maybe sometimes it's pride or maybe it's sometimes lack of confidence, but we With humility and authentic engagement in attempting to engage in authentic relationship with others, it's contagious. It really is. People see authenticity. They know when they are loved and they will respond.

Christopher Beaudet

And that is, I would think, for priests who may be listening, a great consolation, because I would imagine when they discern the call of the Lord, in their deepest interiority, it was not come after me and I will make you a CFO of your community or have you handle spreadsheets or manage, you know, HR issues, but come after me and be another Christ and bring the love of the Father to the world. That's what inspires that call. And that is, if that's done well and maintained as the primary focus of the pastor's mission, To your point, a lot of these things will follow suit, and inviting others whose skill sets are those things, right?

Dave Kimbell

That's right.

Christopher Beaudet

Yeah.

Dave Kimbell

That's right, yeah.

Christopher Beaudet

I mean, the bishop's done that with you, and bishops do that with a CFO in their own diocese. The bishop to the diocese is what the pastor is to the parish, and he needs to be building relationship and loving the flock, right? Loving the people of the diocese, yeah. You have an education background just in the last couple of minutes here that we've got, we always say in our fundraising experience, and I know you have fundraising experience, that you could present a case for support from a financial point of view, and you need to, you gotta be, there's the transparency and good stewardship of how we're gonna use these funds and how much funds do we need. But people are less ready to give because of square footage than they are about the education that's gonna happen in the new school that happens to be this large or this much space. So you gotta tell them the square footage, but you really gotta tell the impact and the story of what's gonna happen in this school. What's gonna happen to the hearts and minds of these kids, that kind of thing. How do you know when a case is resonating? How do you think as an educator, is the best way to go about telling this story. And I would imagine you'd help parishes think along these lines as well from your vantage in the diocese.

Dave Kimbell

That's right. Being a teacher is one of the hardest, but also most rewarding professions. I spent 15 years in the classroom, mostly teaching middle school, fifth through eighth grade. And I absolutely loved it. But it's exhausting and you always have to put things in context and have an easily digestible narrative. What are the core things that I want my students to take away from this lesson? What are the things that I want to them to remember, not just for the test, but in 10 years or when they're 50 years old and they look back on some of the lessons from this time in history or this particular book of literature? What are the things that I want them to remember? And so I think one of the best ways to do effective storytelling at a parish, especially when it comes to financial storytelling, is to talk about the impact and make it personal. Who is being helped? How are they being helped? And Why is this something that you should be a part of? And thank you so much for helping to make it happen.

Christopher Beaudet

Gratitude.

Dave Kimbell

It's not, you don't have to say every single, you know, smart board or desk or, you know, in a religious ed classroom, how many carpet squares are being installed or, you know, all of the features of whatever. It's really about who is being helped. How does this fit into our story as a parish? And thank you for being a part of it. It's just keep it simple and think through what are the ways in which these group of donors or this group of people or this parish might engage with this space in five to 10 years? Are their children going to be going through these classes? Are their grandchildren going to be baptized in this place? Tell those stories, because that's where people want want to get engaged. You just have to think through what's the end goal, right? And what do people need to take away from this? And then bring that just back into a very simple, cohesive narrative. If you're excited about it, they'll be excited about it.

Christopher Beaudet

Yeah, exactly. And that goes back to what we said earlier about the importance of good leadership, sharing that vision and mission and getting buy-in even before a campaign or a financial request, just to have that buy-in. And then when it comes around to needing these extraordinary expansion of the school, replacement of the bell tower, you take your pick, there's already tilled soil for the appeal and the seed will land more readily.

Dave Kimbell

Right. Yeah, you're not going to convince people to upgrade a bell tower just by talking about the cracks in the brick or the, rusty hinge. You're going to talk about what do bell towers signify? What are we trying to do with this bell tower? We're trying to bring together the community. We're resounding the, you know, the sound of our mass beginning to the whole neighborhood, and we want to make sure that we're doing that in the most effective way possible. This is This is what stewardship is, right? This is using the resources that we have to bring the most number of people into communion with Christ that we can possibly get. Yes, these things cost money. And yes, there's a risk management component. We have to make sure that we do it right and safely and prudently. But really, those are just means to the end and the end being success.

Christopher Beaudet

Dave, you've convinced me. How much can I pay you for the belt? Well, I really got to thank you for the gift of your time today and sharing your insights, which really are a great blend from your background as an educator, and especially of younger children. You kind of do need to keep it simple and direct, and you can see the impact of solid education when that's the case. your theological background, and of course, your financial acumen and all of the ways that you're bringing that to bear in service in your vocation right now and service to the diocesan church there in Northwest Florida. And so we really appreciate all the work you're doing. And again, as I said, the gift of your time today. Thank you sincerely.

Dave Kimbell

Thank you, Christopher. I've really enjoyed it. I love the opportunity to reflect on these big picture questions because it helps me ground my work in the long-term goal as well. Sometimes I can get a little bit narrowly focused on a certain situation or crisis or problem and opportunities like this to step away and take a take a bigger look are just moments of grace. So thank you.

Christopher Beaudet

They are indeed. You've helped us all remember to look at the forest and not just the trees and the important work we're doing. So yeah, thank you. Thank you sincerely. Well, it sounds like the Diocese of Tallahassee Pensacola is blessed with the happy problem of growth. and the challenges that come with ensuring that the growth happens intentionally, strategically, and with an eye to supporting mission. My thanks to Dave Kimbell for speaking with me from his financial expertise, rooted in his rich theological understanding of stewardship, discipleship, and the communion of the church. I hope you found our episode informative and insightful. Be sure to subscribe to follow our podcast. and enjoy many more great conversations at the end of each month. We'd love to have you join us again here on Twelve Wicker Baskets.